Irenaeus the fall of man.

We can partially gauge this early church father by his words here.

How is it possible to say that the serpent, created by God dumb and irrational, was endowed with reason and speech? For if it had the power of itself to speak, to discern, to understand, and to reply to what was spoken by the woman, there would have been nothing to prevent every serpent from doing this also.

If, however, they say again that it was according to the divine will and dispensation that this [serpent] spake with a human voice to Eve, they render God the author of sin.

Neither was it possible for the evil demon to impart speech to a speechless nature, and thus from that which is not to produce that which is; for if that were the case, he never would have ceased (with the view of leading men astray) from conferring with and deceiving them by means of serpents, and beasts, and birds.

From what quarter, too, did it, being a beast, obtain information regarding the injunction of God to the man given to him alone, and in secret, not even the woman herself being aware of it?

Irenaeus says serpents were created by God unable to speak and irrational so where did their reason and speech come from in Genesis

Irenaeus tells us if you think God gave the serpent the power of speech to tempt eve you are wrong because that would make God the author of sin.
Irenaeus then spouts off if you think it was the devil your also wrong because he has no power to grant animals speech and if even if he could then demon speaking through animals would still be to leading us astray 

Iraeneus appears arrogance telling his readers by I know something you don’t know –but I’m not going to tell. This behavior was unknown in Christ and the Apostles

So what does scripture say on this?

Genesis 2:18-20 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help(er) meet for him.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast (of the cattle) of the field which the LORD God had made.

Romans: 8 19-22 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now

Was made subject to vanity Subject = to put under   Vanity= Corruption

Delivered from the bondage of corruption   bondage = forced servitude slavery Corruption = To spoil, to ruin to corrupt.

What is Paul the Apostle saying here about animals and the fall of man he is saying:  the creature (animals) were made subject (put under) to vanity (corruption)

the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage (forced servitude) of corruption (To be spoiled, to be ruined, to be corrupted.)

How were they put under? Adam was given dominion over all of creation and when he sinned he delivered the whole of creation to the serpent.

So what happened? According to Paul the whole of creation was corrupted by the devil. The devil has taken creation that showed forth the glory of God and made it show forth death destruction and corruption.  In the case of the earth it is written that it no longer yielded its strength – by the order of its new Lord. That man and beast now labor by the sweat of the brow to eat –by order of its new Lord. The soil began yielding thorns and thistles – by order of its new Lord.  

So what happened to the animals according to Paul? They were spoiled – the meaning of that is they were robbed and all that they had was taken away.  They were ruined – the meaning of which can be pictured in a once grand empire like the Incas that now are only crumbling ruins.

Interestingly Paul on speaking of the creatures and us Paul tells us that both are groaning.  Paul tells us elsewhere that the Holy Spirit gives us groanings that cannot be uttered. What am I suggesting here is that the serpent speaking to Eve was not an uncommon event how do we know that?   Because Eve did not scream when the serpent spoke to her. She did not stammer in scripture and say “You spoke.” Scripture does not indicate any surprise or suspicion on her part in other words animals speaking in the garden before the fall was considered normal.

Further in acripture:
Genesis 2:18-20 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help(er) meet for him.
We see God individually making an animal for Adam, and God brought it unto Adam and that Adam Fellowshipped with each creation of God for hours, days possibly weeks, for what purpose to see if they could be a help meet for Adam and in the course of this Adam would name the animal an appropriate name. 

To this day many of the creatures are friendly toward men; dogs, cats, birds, cows, horses, sheep, etc. I am suggesting that this is the remains of an imprint, a bond if you will made between Adam and these creatures in the garden.

Pail says that after the fall the creatures of the creation were spoiled, they were robbed. Robbed of what? Speech, a carefree life in the garden where all of creation was at peace and fed and under the care of God and Adam.  And Paul tells us that all that remains in these creatures of the ability to communicate is a groaning the same groaning that the Holy Spirit has given to his children.

Irenaeus is called an Apostolic Father, he is called a founder of our faith his writings are much heralded. In them he boasts that Polycarp sat under the tutelage of John the Apostle and learned many stories of Jesus and the disciples apart from scripture and that when Polycarp was old that Irenaeus sat under his tutelage and learned all these venerable sayings – he beast someone over the head that they were not their and know nothing of what Irenaeus knows – yet in his writings he sees fit to relate none of these experiences and he give no testimony of these events --  thus benefiting his hearers with nothing other than his prideful boasts and angry opinions.

And in this case as we see above it is clear that Irenaeus neither knows the writings of Paul the Apostle on this subject, nor does he seem have any insight on this matter from the scriptures. 

Why also did it not prefer to make its attack upon the man instead of the woman? And if thou sayest that it attacked her as being the weaker of the two, [I reply that], on the contrary, she was the stronger, since she appears to have been the helper of the man in the transgression of the commandment.
Irenaeus is even further out in left field here Paul clearly tells us the woman was the weaker vessel and we can see in scripture that the woman had long contemplated eating of the fruit, that the sin had been planted watered and nurtured before the devil came to harvest of his seed.

For she did by herself alone resist the serpent, and it was after holding out for a while and making opposition that she ate of the tree, being circumvented by craft; (Of the serpent)
This is utter fantasy on Irenaeus’ part. For this is again neither the testimony of Scripture nor of Paul the apostle on this matter. Nowhere did Eve resist, nowhere did she walk away. Nowhere did she rebuke the serpent.

Whereas Adam, making no fight whatever, nor refusal, partook of the fruit handed to him by the woman, which is an indication of the utmost imbecility and effeminacy of mind. And the woman indeed, having been vanquished in the contest by a demon, is deserving of pardon; but Adam shall deserve none, for he was worsted by a woman,-he who, in his own person, had received the command from God.
Again Irenaeus is out in the cow fields. His assertions here are now dangerous because he is clearly now making up the facts to suit is own personal prejudices. Paul squarely puts the blame on Eve not Adam. Calling Adam an Imbecile as Adam is the first Adam and a type of Christ wipes out all that Paul says on that subject.  Paul does not tell us Adam was worsted by the woman. Now there is a passage in the book of Job that describes Eves behavior that day with Adam and it tells us she treated him worse and worse until he capitulated to her demands – she became deranged through sin and sought Adams destruction in order to preserve herself in her corrupted state before God. For if Adam had not sinned she was in fear God would have cast her aside and raised up another bride for his son.   

But the woman, having heard of the command from Adam, treated it with contempt, either because she deemed it unworthy of God to speak by means of it, or because she had her doubts, perhaps even held the opinion that the command was given to her by Adam of his own accord.
Here Irenaeus now suggests that Eve had no faith in Adam prior and was in rebellion of his commands because she felt he had no authority. 

The serpent found her working alone, so that he was enabled to confer with her apart. Observing her then either eating or not eating from the trees, he put before her the fruit of the [forbidden] tree. And if he saw her eating, it is manifest that she was partaker of a body subject to corruption. "For everything going in at the mouth, is cast out into the draught."22 If then corruptible, it is obvious that she was also mortal. But if mortal, then there was certainly no curse; nor was that a [condemnatory] sentence, when the voice of God spake to the man, "For earth thou art, and unto earth shall thou return,
Irenaeus again is fantasizing for this was before the fall and the word of God said there was NO CORRUPTION so if a fruit fell it did not bruise and it sat on the ground and would not rot. So also when they ate and drank the body was able to ingest 100%.  And if you really need to know when you go to the bathroom that is mucus and dead cells that the body is passing out not used food. So being that there was no corruption there were no dead cells to pass out of the body.

As the true course of things proceeds [now and always]. Then again, if the serpent observed the woman not eating, how did he induce her to eat who never had eaten?
This is a straw dog because God told them prior they could eat of everything except of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So the would have been eating and exploring this great creation God made with all of its tastes and smells and animals that they befriended

And who pointed out to this accursed man-slaying serpent that the sentence of death pronounced against them by God would not take [immediate] effect, when He said, "For in the day that ye eat thereof, ye shall surely die? "And not this merely, but that along with the impunity24 [attending their sin] the eyes of those should be opened who had not seen until then? But with the opening [of their eyes] referred to, they made entrance upon the path of death.

As the devil reported to God in Job you have an answer “From going to and fro upon the earth the devil looks for his victims. He selects his marks and observes them and them appropriately tempts them according to their own personal lusts.

How can this man honestly suggest they had never seen before? Adam looking for a help meet Adam and Eve dressing and keeping the garden, and hw pray tell did they find the fruits on the tree to eat if they could not see?  


The point of this is to demonstrate with some certainty that Irenaeus was himself corrupt and to help us see how far the church had fallen 



Irenaeus the evening and morning oblation



First I need to make a comment that it appears at very least this text has been tampered with. The Roman Catholic Church acknowledges that all the epistles attributed to St. Ignatius are 3rd century forgeries. The Roman Catholic Church also acknowledges that several writings attributed to Polycarp were tampered with as well.  That is why none of those are posted on this site. What I am troubled by is the presence of a Latin word in the first sentence “Oblation” it comes from the Latin word “Oblatio” and secondly Irenaeus speaking of secondary Constitutions which refer to Apostle’s traditions being equal with Christs words and scripture. These two things are so core and key to Roman Catholicism its almost like finding a popes bloody thumb print on a document. I can not say for sure on this because we know that somewhere around the time of Irenaeus and Tertullian 170-200 AD the church fell from grace and unfortunately there are few surviving writings from this period. Interestingly enough this is the time of the Montainist revival and the so called new Prophecy and the bishop of Rome Praxeas first accepts Montanus and his people as prophets and extends full fellowship to them and all their churches but thing in some back closet deal Praxeas rescinds the fellowship and he personally begins spreading false rumors about Montanus and his followers ever casting them out of the church. Of Praxaes Tertullian says he drove the Holy Spirit out of the Church. He drove the Holy Spirit out of the church. And he crucified the Father – these are significant charges.


Those who have become acquainted with the secondary constitutions (He is saying the apostles made their own commandments and traditions) of' the apostles, are aware that the Lord instituted a new oblation in the new covenant, according to the declaration of Malachi the prophet. For, "from the rising of the sun even to the setting my name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure sacrifice; " John also declares in the Apocalypse: "The incense is the prayers of the saints."74 Then again, Paul exhorts us "to present our bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." And again, "Let us offer the sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of the lips." Now those oblations are not according to the law, the handwriting of which the Lord took away from the midst by cancelling it; but they are according to the Spirit, for we must worship God "in spirit and in truth." And therefore the oblation of the Eucharist is not a carnal one, but a spiritual; and in this respect it is pure. For we make an oblation to God of the bread and the cup of blessing, giving Him thanks in that He has commanded the earth to bring forth these fruits for our nourishment. And then, when we have perfected the oblation, we invoke the Holy Spirit, that He may exhibit this sacrifice, both the bread the body of Christ, and the cup the blood of Christ, in order that the receivers of these antitypesmay obtain remission of sins and life eternal. Those persons, then, who perform these oblations in remembrance of the Lord, do not fall in with Jewish views, but, performing the service after a spiritual manner, they shall be called sons of wisdom


“Those who have become acquainted with the secondary constitutions of' the Apostles.”

Here Irenaeus makes a bold assertion that beyond the Law of Christ or the commandments of Christ the Apostles created a “Secondary Constitution” a second body of law and traditions 


First off concerning the Law of Moses after his death did Joshua and Caleb add any commandments or precepts to the Law? No they did not and they would have feared to do so.


With the Lord implicitly telling the Priests and the Levites who were charged with the keeping of the Law that they add not or diminish His words and commandments – They were put on notice to do such would incur the wrath of God and their utter destruction.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

From this we see that not even Joshua and Caleb who in a figure were the Apostles of Moses would have dared to add their own commandments to the Law of Moses or made their own commandments and had them null out a single word of the Law.


Now this particular verse is at the chapter division and when Moses wrote the law no such divisions existed.  And I might add that at the Time of Christ and the Apostles no Chapter divisions or verse divisions existed either I will restore what God had said with the forbidding of adding or diminishing his word.


Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. 13:1-5 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death.

So even with prophets having dreams and visions and performing signs and wonders and diverse miracles – they can not add or diminishing the word of God.  The word that Proceedeth illuminates the Scriptures and the word that proceedeth guides us to all truth but it does not add or diminish the scriptures – and if it does this prophet this Levite or this priest shall be put to death. 


Christ affirms this passage of scripture

Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:22-27 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before (Foretold you.) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Moses when he spoke these things and wrote them down in the book of the law recorded them not only for Israel but he also prophesied concerning Christ and the Ecclesia and for us who are afar off as well.

Christ came to manifest or fulfill the Law in its fullness. The law did not cease upon his death. For Christ is still the righteousness of the Law and still the fullness of the Lord. And if we are in him we are to be made also to manifest the fullness of the Law and be the righteousness of the Law even as he is.
For when God created Adam as his son The Father fully intended to fill earth with people like Adam in his former state of grace.


So when Christ fulfilled the law in that He manifested it as the Second and Last Adam.  And in like manner Christ did not intend upon his death as has been commonly preached that the law had been done away with. What was done away with was the sacrifices and offerings the daily oblation Christ himself once and for all becoming all the offerings and sacrifices that are acceptable unto God. Christ was desirous as the Father was in the garden to fill the earth with a people that walked in His fullness and in His righteousness.


This is the same case with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that fell upon Christ. He not desirous that it be nailed with him upon the cross and as a fulfillment of the Law be done away with upon His death Christ and the Father were desirous that all who follow him would be endued from on with that same Spirit that he preformed all signs all wonders and all miracles with and this took place in Acts 2:4.


What took place in Exodus when God took the Spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the 70 elders was indeed part of the Law and needed to be fulfilled in Christ and in the Ecclesia as well. So also the rest of the Law that was manifested in Christ was and is to be manifested in the ecclesia as well.



Paul the Apostle also affirmed this scripture


Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul the Apostle indicates that in 65 AD that false prophets, false Apostles and false teachers had arrived at the door of the church. Paul the apostle is saying here that the Galatians have been overthrown. What he is doing is reminiscent of what Christ said to the seven churches in Revelation. He is giving them a space of  repentance and a solemn warning that if they do not repent the Galatians candlestick shall be removed. I want you to consider that the church of Galatia was not part of the seven Churches in the book of Revelation. Their candlestick had been removed. 

2 Corinthians 11:3-5 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (You might accept this false teacher or false prophet.)
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:17-21 That which I speak, I (am) speak(ing) not after the Lord, but as it were foolishness, in (The same arrogant spirit as your) confidence (pride) of boasting. Seeing that many (of you) glory after the flesh, I will glory (now) also. For ye suffer (allow) fools gladly (to teach and minister in your midst.) Seeing ye (believe) yourselves as wise. For ye suffer (allow) a man (to) bring you into bondage (to himself and his corrupt gospel.),  (Ye allow) a man (to) devour you (to take away the spiritual inheritance that you had), (Ye allow) a man take of you (Your carnal possessions to enrich himself) , (Ye allow) a man exalt himself (Taking the glory that is due to God alone), (And you gladly do all of this even ) if that man smites you on the face. I speak as concerning (the) reproach (you have brought in your midst.)
Paul indicates that there was something corrupt in these believers causing them to be able to be beguiled. Paul indicates that they might well accept these false ministries and their false gospels. I want you to consider that the church of Corinth was not part of the seven Churches in the book of Revelation. Their candlestick had also been removed. 


Deuteronomy 17:15-20 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. 7Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.


And I will ask also did Joshua and Caleb add any oblations to the law? No they did not. And they would have feared to do so. 

Leviticus 10:1-2  And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

So In the face of all of this Irenaeus suggests two things here:
1)That the Apostles themselves set up according to their own will new laws defying the heavenly pattern of the tabernacle in the wilderness, and superceding the words of Christ with their own – This is a damnable heresy.

2) And then Irenaeus tells us The apostles, are aware that the Lord instituted a new oblation in the new covenant, according to the declaration of Malachi the prophet.


Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.


Irenaeus then lays out that we are to accept and believe that a series of man made sacrifices that were being introduced are going to supercede Christ’s once and for all sacrifice for sin and our redemption.


He is laying out a syllogism an argument of logic to trap you in what he wants you to accept.


A syllogism works like this if A is true and B is true; So therefore A and B must equal C


But we see here that A “The apostles made up a secondary set of laws own their own.” is not true. And B the apostles do not seem aware of a new oblation, there were aware of holy communion as us fellowshipping and partaking of Christ’s sacrifice but they were not aware that is was to be preformed as a sacrifice in itself.  Nor do the apostles seem aware of this all important prophecy that Irenaeus declares that justifies this new oblation being performed by all believers. 

So again it seems Irenaeus does not have a real grasp of what scripture says regarding what he has written nor does he seem to have a grasp of the writings of the apostles on this matter.


Now we can ask ourselves how could these thing be? There are two possibilities; one is that Irenaeus’ claim to fame was that he sat under Polycarp making him the third out from John the Apostle. As hard as it is for me to conceive it, Irenaeus could have made a good living based on that and that alone while never really having come into a personal knowledge of the Lord himself. In his day Irenaeus would have been a rarity, for there was almost no one that could have legitimately claimed having any connection to one of the twelve Apostles. The other reason is perhaps worse.  That Irenaeus actually knew better, but his to his denomination and position in the church was greater than his loyalty to Christ and his love for the truth.  And so he became a hack for the church’s corrupt party line so that he could hang on to his personal prestige and position. 


Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: