Irenaeus the
fall of man.
We can partially gauge this early church father
by his words here.
How is it possible to say that the serpent, created by God dumb and
irrational, was endowed with reason and speech? For if it had the power of itself to
speak, to discern, to understand, and to reply to what was spoken by the woman,
there would have been nothing to prevent every serpent from doing this also.
If, however, they say again
that it was according to the divine will and dispensation that this [serpent]
spake with a human voice to Eve, they render God the author of sin.
Neither was it possible for the evil demon to impart speech to a
speechless nature,
and thus from that which is not to produce that which is; for if that were the
case, he never would have ceased (with the view of leading men astray) from
conferring with and deceiving them by means of serpents, and beasts, and birds.
From what quarter, too, did
it, being a beast, obtain information regarding the injunction of God to the
man given to him alone, and in secret, not even the woman herself being aware
of it?
Irenaeus says
serpents were created by God unable to speak and irrational so where did their
reason and speech come from in Genesis
Irenaeus tells us
if you think God gave the serpent the power of speech to tempt eve you are
wrong because that would make God the author of sin.
Irenaeus then spouts off if you think it was the devil your also wrong because
he has no power to grant animals speech and if even if he could then demon
speaking through animals would still be to leading us astray
Iraeneus appears
arrogance telling his readers by I know something you don’t know –but I’m not
going to tell. This behavior was unknown in Christ and the Apostles
So
what does scripture say on this?
Genesis 2:18-20 And the
LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be
alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And
out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl
of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and
whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and
to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help(er) meet
for him.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more
subtil than any beast (of the cattle) of the field which the LORD God had made.
Romans: 8 19-22 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the
manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity,
not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of
corruption into the glorious liberty of the
children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in
pain together until now
Was made subject
to vanity Subject = to put under
Vanity= Corruption
Delivered from the
bondage of corruption bondage = forced
servitude slavery Corruption = To spoil, to ruin to corrupt.
What is Paul the
Apostle saying here about animals and the fall of man he is saying: the creature (animals)
were made subject (put
under) to vanity (corruption)
the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage (forced servitude) of corruption (To be
spoiled, to be ruined, to be corrupted.)
How were they put
under? Adam was given dominion over all of creation and when he sinned he
delivered the whole of creation to the serpent.
So what happened?
According to Paul the whole of creation was corrupted by the devil. The devil
has taken creation that showed forth the glory of God and made it show forth
death destruction and corruption. In
the case of the earth it is written that it no longer yielded its strength – by
the order of its new Lord. That man and beast now labor by the sweat of the
brow to eat –by order of its new Lord. The soil began yielding thorns and
thistles – by order of its new Lord.
So what happened
to the animals according to Paul? They were spoiled – the meaning of that is
they were robbed and all that they had was taken away. They were ruined – the meaning of which can
be pictured in a once grand empire like the Incas that now are only crumbling
ruins.
Interestingly Paul
on speaking of the creatures and us Paul tells us that both are groaning. Paul tells us elsewhere that the Holy Spirit
gives us groanings that cannot be uttered. What am I suggesting here is that
the serpent speaking to Eve was not an uncommon event how do we know that? Because Eve did not scream when the serpent
spoke to her. She did not stammer in scripture and say “You spoke.” Scripture
does not indicate any surprise or suspicion on her part in other words animals
speaking in the garden before the fall was considered normal.
Further in acripture:
Genesis 2:18-20 And the LORD God said, It is not
good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the
field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he
would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was
the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all
cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for
Adam there was not found an help(er) meet for him.
We see God individually making
an animal for Adam, and God brought it unto Adam and that Adam Fellowshipped
with each creation of God for hours, days possibly weeks, for what purpose to
see if they could be a help meet for Adam and in the course of this Adam would
name the animal an appropriate name.
To this day
many of the creatures are friendly toward men; dogs, cats, birds, cows, horses,
sheep, etc. I am suggesting that this is the remains of an imprint, a bond if
you will made between Adam and these creatures in the garden.
Pail says that
after the fall the creatures of the creation were spoiled, they were robbed.
Robbed of what? Speech, a carefree life in the garden where all of creation was
at peace and fed and under the care of God and Adam. And Paul tells us that all that remains in these creatures of the
ability to communicate is a groaning the same groaning that the Holy Spirit has
given to his children.
Irenaeus is called
an Apostolic Father, he is called a founder of our faith his writings are much
heralded. In them he boasts that Polycarp sat under the tutelage of John the
Apostle and learned many stories of Jesus and the disciples apart from
scripture and that when Polycarp was old that Irenaeus sat under his tutelage
and learned all these venerable sayings – he beast someone over the head that
they were not their and know nothing of what Irenaeus knows – yet in his
writings he sees fit to relate none of these experiences and he give no
testimony of these events -- thus
benefiting his hearers with nothing other than his prideful boasts and angry
opinions.
And in this case as we see above it is clear that Irenaeus neither knows the
writings of Paul the Apostle on this subject, nor does he seem have any insight
on this matter from the scriptures.
Why also did it
not prefer to make its attack upon the man instead of the woman? And if thou
sayest that it attacked her as being the weaker of the two, [I reply that], on
the contrary, she was the stronger, since she appears to have been the helper
of the man in the transgression of the commandment.
Irenaeus
is even further out in left field here Paul clearly tells us the woman was the
weaker vessel and we can see in scripture that the woman had long contemplated
eating of the fruit, that the sin had been planted watered and nurtured before
the devil came to harvest of his seed.
For
she did by herself alone resist the serpent, and it was after holding out for a
while and making opposition that she ate of the tree, being circumvented by craft;
(Of the serpent)
This is utter
fantasy on Irenaeus’ part. For this is again neither the testimony of Scripture
nor of Paul the apostle on this matter. Nowhere did Eve resist, nowhere did she
walk away. Nowhere did she rebuke the serpent.
Whereas Adam, making no fight
whatever, nor refusal, partook of the fruit handed to him by the woman, which is an indication of the utmost imbecility and
effeminacy of mind. And the woman indeed, having
been vanquished in the contest by a demon, is deserving of pardon; but Adam
shall deserve none, for he was worsted by a woman,-he who, in his own
person, had received the command from God.
Again Irenaeus is out in the cow fields. His assertions here are now dangerous
because he is clearly now making up the facts to suit is own personal
prejudices. Paul squarely puts the blame on Eve not Adam. Calling Adam an
Imbecile as Adam is the first Adam and a type of Christ wipes out all that Paul
says on that subject. Paul does not
tell us Adam was worsted by the woman. Now there is a passage in the book of
Job that describes Eves behavior that day with Adam and it tells us she treated
him worse and worse until he capitulated to her demands – she became deranged
through sin and sought Adams destruction in order to preserve herself in her
corrupted state before God. For if Adam had not sinned she was in fear God
would have cast her aside and raised up another bride for his son.
But the woman, having heard of the command from Adam,
treated it with contempt, either because she deemed it unworthy of God to speak
by means of it, or because she had her doubts, perhaps even held the opinion
that the command was given to her by Adam of his own accord.
Here Irenaeus now suggests that Eve had no
faith in Adam prior and was in rebellion of his commands because she felt he
had no authority.
The serpent found her working
alone, so that he was enabled to confer with her apart. Observing her then
either eating or not eating from the trees, he put before her the fruit of the
[forbidden] tree. And if he saw her eating, it is manifest that she was
partaker of a body subject to corruption. "For everything going in at the
mouth, is cast out into the draught."22
If then corruptible, it is obvious that she was also mortal. But if mortal,
then there was certainly no curse; nor was that a [condemnatory] sentence, when
the voice of God spake to the man, "For earth thou art, and unto earth
shall thou return,
Irenaeus again is fantasizing for this was before the
fall and the word of God said there was NO CORRUPTION so if a fruit fell it did
not bruise and it sat on the ground and would not rot. So also when they ate
and drank the body was able to ingest 100%.
And if you really need to know when you go to the bathroom that is mucus
and dead cells that the body is passing out not used food. So being that there
was no corruption there were no dead cells to pass out of the body.
As the true
course of things proceeds [now and always]. Then again, if the serpent observed
the woman not eating, how did he induce her to eat who never had eaten?
This is a
straw dog because God told them prior they could eat of everything except of
the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So the would have been eating and
exploring this great creation God made with all of its tastes and smells and
animals that they befriended
And who pointed out to this
accursed man-slaying serpent that the sentence of death pronounced against them
by God would not take [immediate] effect, when He said, "For in the day
that ye eat thereof, ye shall surely die? "And not this merely, but that
along with the impunity24
[attending their sin] the eyes of those should be opened who had not seen until
then? But with the opening [of their eyes] referred to, they made entrance upon
the path of death.
As the devil reported to God in
Job you have an answer “From going to and fro upon the earth the devil looks
for his victims. He selects his marks and observes them and them appropriately
tempts them according to their own personal lusts.
How can this man honestly suggest they had never seen before? Adam looking for
a help meet Adam and Eve dressing and keeping the garden, and hw pray tell did
they find the fruits on the tree to eat if they could not see?
The point of this is to
demonstrate with some certainty that Irenaeus was himself corrupt and to help
us see how far the church had fallen
First I need to make a comment
that it appears at very least this text has been tampered with. The Roman
Catholic Church acknowledges that all the epistles attributed to St. Ignatius
are 3rd century forgeries. The Roman Catholic Church also
acknowledges that several writings attributed to Polycarp were tampered with as
well. That is why none of those are
posted on this site. What I am troubled by is the presence of a Latin word in
the first sentence “Oblation” it comes from
the Latin word “Oblatio” and secondly
Irenaeus speaking of secondary Constitutions
which refer to Apostle’s traditions being equal with Christs words and
scripture. These two things are so core and key to Roman Catholicism its almost
like finding a popes bloody thumb print on a document. I can not say for sure
on this because we know that somewhere around the time of Irenaeus and
Tertullian 170-200 AD the church fell from grace and unfortunately there are
few surviving writings from this period. Interestingly enough this is the time
of the Montainist revival and the so called new Prophecy and the bishop of Rome
Praxeas first accepts Montanus and his people as prophets and extends full
fellowship to them and all their churches but thing in some back closet deal
Praxeas rescinds the fellowship and he personally begins spreading false rumors
about Montanus and his followers ever casting them out of the church. Of
Praxaes Tertullian says he drove the Holy Spirit out of the Church. He drove
the Holy Spirit out of the church. And he crucified the Father – these are
significant charges.
Those who have become acquainted with the secondary
constitutions (He is saying the apostles
made their own commandments and traditions) of' the apostles, are
aware that the Lord instituted a new oblation in the new covenant, according to the
declaration of Malachi the prophet. For, "from the rising of the sun even
to the setting my name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every
place incense is offered to my name, and a pure sacrifice; " John also
declares in the Apocalypse: "The incense is the prayers of the
saints."74
Then again, Paul exhorts us "to present our bodies a living sacrifice,
holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." And again,
"Let us offer the sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of the
lips." Now those oblations are not according to
the law, the handwriting of which the Lord took away from the midst by
cancelling it; but they are according to the Spirit, for we must
worship God "in spirit and in truth." And
therefore the oblation of the Eucharist is
not a carnal one, but a spiritual; and in this respect it is pure. For we make an oblation to God of the bread and the cup of
blessing, giving Him thanks in that He has commanded the earth to bring
forth these fruits for our nourishment. And then, when
we have perfected the oblation, we invoke the Holy Spirit, that He may exhibit
this sacrifice, both the bread the body of Christ, and the cup the blood of
Christ, in order that the receivers of these antitypesmay obtain
remission of sins and life eternal. Those persons, then, who perform these
oblations in remembrance of the Lord, do not fall in with Jewish views, but,
performing the service after a spiritual manner, they shall be called sons of
wisdom
“Those who have become acquainted with the secondary
constitutions of' the Apostles.”
Here Irenaeus makes a bold assertion that beyond the
Law of Christ or the commandments of Christ the Apostles created a “Secondary
Constitution” a second body of law and traditions
First off concerning the Law of Moses after his death did Joshua
and Caleb add any commandments or precepts to the Law? No they did not and they would
have feared to do so.
With the Lord implicitly telling the Priests and the Levites who
were charged with the keeping of the Law that they add not or diminish His
words and commandments – They were put on notice to do such would incur the
wrath of God and their utter destruction.
Deuteronomy
4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I
command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the
commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy
12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe
to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
From this we see that not even Joshua and Caleb who in a figure
were the Apostles of Moses would have dared to add their own commandments to
the Law of Moses or made their own commandments and had them null out a single
word of the Law.
Now this particular verse is at the chapter division and when Moses
wrote the law no such divisions existed.
And I might add that at the Time of Christ and the Apostles no Chapter
divisions or verse divisions existed either I will restore what God had said
with the forbidding of adding or diminishing his word.
Deuteronomy
12:32 What thing soever I command you,
observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
13:1-5 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer
of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come
to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which
thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the
words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love
the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk
after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his
voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to
death.
So even with prophets having dreams and visions and performing
signs and wonders and diverse miracles – they can not add or diminishing the
word of God. The word that Proceedeth
illuminates the Scriptures and the word that proceedeth guides us to all truth
but it does not add or diminish the scriptures – and if it does this prophet
this Levite or this priest shall be put to death.
Christ
affirms this passage of scripture
Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said
unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For
many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:22-27 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;
believe it not. For there shall arise false
Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch
that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before (Foretold
you.) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold,
he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;
believe it not. For as the lightning
cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be.
Moses when he spoke these things and wrote them down in the book of
the law recorded them not only for Israel but he also prophesied concerning
Christ and the Ecclesia and for us who are afar off as well.
Christ came to manifest or fulfill the Law in its fullness. The law
did not cease upon his death. For Christ is still the righteousness of the Law
and still the fullness of the Lord. And if we are in him we are to be made also to manifest the fullness of the Law and be
the righteousness of the Law even as he is.
For when God created Adam as his son The Father fully intended to fill earth
with people like Adam in his former state of grace.
So when Christ fulfilled the law in that He manifested it as the
Second and Last Adam. And in like
manner Christ did not intend upon his death as has been commonly preached that
the law had been done away with. What was done away with was the sacrifices and
offerings the daily oblation Christ himself once and for all becoming all the
offerings and sacrifices that are acceptable unto God. Christ was desirous as
the Father was in the garden to fill the earth with a people that walked in His
fullness and in His righteousness.
This is the same case with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that fell
upon Christ. He not desirous that it be nailed with him upon the cross and as a
fulfillment of the Law be done away with upon His death Christ and the Father
were desirous that all who follow him would be endued from on with that same
Spirit that he preformed all signs all wonders and all miracles with and this
took place in Acts 2:4.
What took place in Exodus when God took the Spirit that was upon
Moses and put it upon the 70 elders was indeed part of the Law and needed to be
fulfilled in Christ and in the Ecclesia as well. So also the rest of the Law
that was manifested in Christ was and is to be manifested in the ecclesia as
well.
Paul the
Apostle also affirmed this scripture
Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Paul the Apostle indicates that in 65 AD that false prophets, false
Apostles and false teachers had arrived at the door of the church. Paul the
apostle is saying here that the Galatians have been overthrown. What he is
doing is reminiscent of what Christ said to the seven churches in Revelation.
He is giving them a space of repentance
and a solemn warning that if they do not repent the Galatians candlestick shall
be removed. I want you to consider that the church of Galatia was not part of
the seven Churches in the book of Revelation. Their candlestick had been
removed.
2 Corinthians 11:3-5 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in
Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or
another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (You might accept this false teacher or false prophet.)
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is
transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his
ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end
shall be according to their works.
2
Corinthians 11:17-21 That which I speak, I (am) speak(ing) not after the Lord, but as it were foolishness, in (The same arrogant spirit as your)
confidence (pride) of
boasting. Seeing that many (of you) glory after the flesh, I will glory
(now) also. For ye suffer (allow) fools gladly (to teach and minister in your midst.) Seeing ye (believe) yourselves as wise. For ye suffer (allow)
a man (to) bring you into bondage (to himself
and his corrupt gospel.), (Ye allow) a man (to) devour you (to take away the spiritual
inheritance that you had), (Ye allow) a man take of
you (Your carnal possessions to enrich himself) , (Ye allow) a man exalt himself (Taking
the glory that is due to God alone), (And you gladly do all of this even ) if that man smites you on the face. I speak as concerning (the) reproach (you have brought in your midst.)
Paul indicates
that there was something corrupt in these believers causing them to be able to
be beguiled. Paul indicates that they might well accept these false ministries
and their false gospels. I want you to consider that the
church of Corinth was not part of the seven Churches in the book of Revelation.
Their candlestick had also been removed.
Deuteronomy 17:15-20 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy
God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. But he shall not multiply horses to
himself, nor cause the people to return to
Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath
said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. 7Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not
away: neither
shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. And
it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his
kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which
is before the priests the Levites: And it shall be with him, and he shall read
therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God,
to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: That his
heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the
commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong
his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
And I will ask also did Joshua and Caleb add any oblations to the
law? No they did not. And they
would have feared to do so.
So In the face
of all of this Irenaeus suggests two things here:
1)That the
Apostles themselves set up according to their own will new laws defying the
heavenly pattern of the tabernacle in the wilderness, and superceding the words
of Christ with their own – This is a damnable heresy.
2) And then Irenaeus tells us The apostles, are aware that
the Lord instituted a new oblation in the new covenant, according to the
declaration of Malachi the prophet.
Malachi
1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same
my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and
in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for
my name shall be great among the heathen,
saith the LORD of hosts.
Irenaeus then lays out
that we are to accept and believe that a series of man made sacrifices that
were being introduced are going to supercede Christ’s once and for all
sacrifice for sin and our redemption.
He is laying out a
syllogism an argument of logic to trap you in what he wants you to accept.
A syllogism works like
this if A is true and B is true; So therefore A and B must equal C
But we see here that A
“The apostles made up a secondary set of laws own their own.” is not true. And
B the apostles do not seem aware of a new oblation, there were aware of holy
communion as us fellowshipping and partaking of Christ’s sacrifice but they
were not aware that is was to be preformed as a sacrifice in itself. Nor do the apostles seem aware of this all
important prophecy that Irenaeus declares that justifies this new oblation
being performed by all believers.
So again it seems Irenaeus does not have a real grasp of what scripture says
regarding what he has written nor does he seem to have a grasp of the writings
of the apostles on this matter.
Now we can ask ourselves
how could these thing be? There are two possibilities; one is that Irenaeus’
claim to fame was that he sat under Polycarp making him the third out from John
the Apostle. As hard as it is for me to conceive it, Irenaeus could have made a
good living based on that and that alone while never really having come into a
personal knowledge of the Lord himself. In his day Irenaeus would have been a
rarity, for there was almost no one that could have legitimately claimed having
any connection to one of the twelve Apostles. The other reason is perhaps
worse. That Irenaeus actually knew
better, but his to his denomination and position in the church was greater than
his loyalty to Christ and his love for the truth. And so he became a hack for the church’s corrupt party line so
that he could hang on to his personal prestige and position.
Revelation
22:18 For I testify unto every man that
heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these
things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: